Q Plates

[Jody]

I've been curious as to if Q registration vehicles can only use the yellow plates with black lettering or can use the black with white lettering, so I have beenlooking on the DVLA site, but can't find out anything.
What got me thinking, is I believe, the Q stands for questionable, as more than a certain percentage of the vehicle is made up of parts that can't be accounted for, (Is that right?).
Any ideas?
Thanks
Jody

[Skidmark]

with the amount of rules and guidelines you have to conform to when building and also the final inspection I would not say they were questionable, what is questionable is a vehicle running its original plate but looks nothing like what it was when it left the factory

[ratwing]

Black & white plates are for vehicles manufactured pre -1973 and if you're on a Q-plate your v5 will say "manufactured date unknown" so no, you can't legally use one. But, the historic vehicle tax class is a rolling 40 years so if you get the tax class changed I think you can change to black & white?
Reversible bolt-on m/c conversions are different but as far as built from scratch trikes go the percentage of parts from the original/donor vehicle makes no difference. It's a points system, you need at least 8 to keep the original plate and a trike will be a max of 3 so you'll get a Q plate and if you can't account for where the parts used in the build came from then you won't get it registered anyway, you need receipts.

[Ghoulie]

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/know ... plate-car/

[Kawazuki]

Can't change a Q plate to age related or personalised plate so the 40 yr / historic rule will never apply!

[ratwing]

Can't change a Q plate to age related or personalised plate so the 40 yr / historic rule will never apply!

Yes and no.
Yes - as I understand it, once a Q it's always a Q, you can't get a different reg number to change it but this doesn't have anything to do with the tax class.

No - according to the DVLA under the Historic (classic) vehicles: MOT and vehicle tax section
"If you do not know when your vehicle was built, but it was first registered before 8 January 1983, you can still apply to stop paying vehicle tax".
So the rolling 40 years applies to Q plates where there's no manufacture date on the v5.

This is the theory but in real life I wonder how many trikers are really that bothered about not being able to change a Q plate and how many over 40 year old Q plate trikes are there?

[Jody]

While on the Q question. What colour reg plates can a Q reg use?
Is it just down to year of manufacture if I can fit an old style plate on?
Thanks

[ratwing]

While on the Q question. What colour reg plates can a Q reg use?

From INF104 on gov.uk: "Vehicles manufactured before 1 January 1973 may display traditional ‘black and white’ number plates (for example, white, silver or grey characters on a black plate)". I'm no expert but I take this to mean no black/white Q plate because there's no manufacture date on a Q plate V5C.

Is it just down to year of manufacture if I can fit an old style plate on?

The rolling 40 year rule applies to date of manufacture (which a Q-plate won't have) or date of first registration (which a Q-plate does have) so once your trike is in the historic taxation class you can change to black/white like other vehicles moved to historic.

[Kawazuki]

The rolling 40 year rule applies to date of manufacture (which a Q-plate won't have) or date of first registration (which a Q-plate does have) so once your trike is in the historic taxation class you can change to black/white like other vehicles moved to historic.

Care to explain further as black & white plates are pre 1973 and Q plates can't confirm that so it doesn't apply IMO.

[ratwing]

Ok, here's what gov.uk has to say.

gov.uk -> Driving and transport -> Number plates, vehicle registration and log books -> Number plates -> Displaying number plates -> Rules for number plates -> Letter spacing, size and style -> Read leaflet INF104: -> Find out about vehicle registration numbers and number plates (INF104) -> INF104. On page 11 this says:
"Traditional number plates for vehicles made before 1 January 1973
Vehicles manufactured before 1 January 1973 may display traditional ‘black and white’ number plates (for example, white, silver or grey characters on a black plate). From April 2020 vehicles manufactured before 1 January 1980 are also able to display traditional ‘black and white’ number plates. You must:
•have applied to DVLA
•be registered within the ‘historic vehicles’ tax class"
(Note the dates April 2020 and January 1980 shown in the pdf of the leaflet don't match those currently given on the website, it looks like the pdf wasn't changed properly for the April 2022 update).

gov.uk -> Driving and transport -> Buy, sell or scrap a vehicle -> Buy a vehicle: step by step -> Buy and register the vehicle -> Find out how to register your vehicle -> Vehicle registration -> 'Q' registration numbers. This says:
"DVLA issues ‘Q’ registration numbers to vehicles whose age or identity is in doubt".

So if it's registered before 01/01/1973 your Q plate would have been black/white the same as everyone else's because yellow/black plates didn't come into force until 01/01/1973. If registered after 01/01/1973 your Q plate V5C isn't given a manufacture date so you can't show it's pre-'73 and can't get a black/white plate.

gov.co.uk -> Driving and transport ->Vehicle tax, MOT and insurance -> Historic (classic) vehicles: MOT and vehicle tax -> What you have to do. This says:
"You must apply for a vehicle tax exemption to stop paying vehicle tax. This is sometimes called putting a vehicle into the ‘historic tax class’ ".

Historic taxation class vehicles can have a black/white plate says INF104. (and changing to Historic isn't an automatic date related entitlement, you have to meet the eligibility criteria and then ask for it).

gov.uk -> Driving and transport -> Vehicle tax, MOT and insurance -> Historic (classic) vehicles: MOT and vehicle tax -> Historic vehicle tax exemption. This says:
"You can apply to stop paying for vehicle tax from 1 April 2023 if your vehicle was built before 1 January 1983. You must tax your vehicle even if you do not have to pay"
and
"If you do not know when your vehicle was built, but it was first registered before 8 January 1983, you can still apply to stop paying vehicle tax".

In other words, although Q plates don't have a date of manufacture you don't need one to change the taxation class from tricycle (or plg if it's a big one) to historic. Also, notice the current 40 year rule dates are unlike those (wrongly) shown in the INF104 pdf.

gov.uk -> Driving and transport -> Vehicle tax, MOT and insurance -> Historic (classic) vehicles: MOT and vehicle tax -> Apply for a vehicle tax exemption. This tells you how to do it:

"Apply at a Post Office that deals with vehicle tax.
You need to take:
- the log book (V5C) in your name
- your vehicle tax reminder letter (V11), if you have one
-an MOT certificate that’s valid when the tax starts, or evidence if your vehicle’s exempt from an MOT (V112)
- an insurance certificate or cover note (only in Northern Ireland)

So in a nutshell, pre '73 Q plates can be black/white and post '73 Q plates can't unless you're in the historic taxation class but read on...
You can get the historic taxation class, MoT exemption and tax exemption with a date of registration if you haven't got a date of manufacture but INF104 says "manufactured before" not "registered before" to display a black/white plate.
Since you can't register your trike if it hasn't been made then even if you don't have the manufacture date you should be covered 40 years after the registration date by default. Would the DVLA accept this? I don't know and my trike isn't old enough yet so I haven't asked but I don't see why not.
EDIT: READ THE NEXT POST FOR THE ANSWER