I've been asked to drag this from the Reliant ringers thread and give it a place of it own.
This thread stems from an interesting question that Doc put forward re' grandfather rights for trikes that have never been through any sort of ministry test prior to the MSVA rules coming into force...Like most of the "Reliant" trikes on the road. Here we go then....
. . . Doc. There are NO grandfather rights for the MSVA, don't let them con you.
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Well I didn't think so, but I've yet to see that actually confirmed in writing either way.
Some people are either mis-reading/mis-interpreting something, or just plain bullsh**ting
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The latter mate.
I've spent a good while today trawling the net (including DVLA) and there's nothing, absolutely nothing about any change in the rule about no grandfather rights. Worthwhile trawl though, re-learned lots of stuff I'd forgotten about.
This is a direct crib from the government MSVA guide....
"THE MOTORCYCLE SINGLE VEHICLE
APPROVAL (MSVA) SCHEME
What is the Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval Scheme?
The Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval (MSVA) scheme is a pre-registration inspection for
mopeds, motorcycles, three wheelers and quadricycles that have not been type-approved to
European standards. The main purpose of the scheme is to ensure that these vehicles have
been designed and constructed to modern safety and environmental standards before they can
be used on public roads. The scheme entered into force on the 08 August 2003.
Why do we need MSVA?
MSVA checks that vehicles constructed for non-European Economic Area markets comply with
British law. Even vehicles outwardly similar to European-specification models, but intended for
other markets, can often be unsuitable for use in Britain without at least some modification. (For
further information on importing a vehicle see the Department’s leaflet PI5 ‘How to Import your
Vehicle into Great Britain’). MSVA recognises certain non-European technical standards as
acceptable alternatives to the MSVA requirements.
MSVA also checks that the construction of amateur-built vehicles, rebuilt vehicles and vehicles
using parts from a previously registered vehicle meet modern safety and environmental
standards. It also provides an alternative to type approval for vehicles manufactured in very
low volume.
What vehicles are within the scope of MSVA?
(a) two wheeled mopeds and motorcycles,
(b) three wheeled vehicles, and;
(c) light four wheeled vehicles.
Will MSVA affect you?
Generally, your vehicle will need to be approved under the MSVA scheme and issued with a Minister’s Approval Certificate (MAC) if it is up to 10 years old and is not covered byl EC type approval (or similar national approval from another European Economic Area Member State that is equivalent to the technical requirements of GB Single Vehicle Approval).
MSVA will be applied to the following :
an amateur built vehicle
a vehicle manufactured in very low volume
a vehicle manufactured using parts of a registered vehicle
a rebuilt vehicle (mandatory if first licensing and registration required)
an imported vehicle without type approval.
The above categories are defined in Appendix 1
.
DVLA may also require radically altered vehicles and rebuilt vehicles to be examined
The important part for us (as homebuilders) is "an amateur built vehicle"......and THAT includes Reliant ringers because they don't have EC type approval. Never have and never will.
The only possible loophole I can find...and you can read this how you will, is in the exemptions list. It does read that any PLG veh over ten years old is exempt from the test.
"2. Exemptions from vehicle approval
You don’t need vehicle approval for:
heavy goods vehicles (more than 3,500kg maximum weight) over 25 years old
light goods vehicles (3,500kg maximum weight or less) over 10 years old
cars and minibuses with 8 passenger seats or less (not including the driver) over 10 years old
buses, coaches and minibuses with more than 8 passenger seats (not including the driver) built by a single manufacturer before 29 July 2010
buses, coaches and minibuses with more than 8 passenger seats (not including the driver) with different body and chassis manufacturers, made before 29 July 2011
tracked vehicles, eg a vehicle that runs on tracks rather than wheels
vehicles designed and constructed for use on construction sites, quarries, ports and airports
vehicles designed and constructed for and used by the armed services, fire and rescue forces, or used in maintaining public order"
So if your a ringer owner and your trying to be a bit clever, maybe you think that excuses you the test. Except it doesn't, because you've radically altered the veh' it'll still need an MSVA test.
Radically altered vehicles then......
"DVLA uses a points system to decide what registration number to give a radically altered vehicle.
Keep the original registration number
Your vehicle must have 8 or more points from the table below if you want to keep the original registration number. 5 of these points must come from having the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame.
Part Points
Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer) 5
Suspension (front and back) - original 2
Axles (both) - original 2
Transmission - original 2
Steering assembly - original 2
Engine - original 1
Get a ‘Q’ registration number
You won’t be able to keep your vehicle’s original registration number if one of the following applies:
it has fewer than 8 points
it has a second-hand or altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame
there’s evidence that 2 vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie ‘cut and shut’)
Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get a ‘Q’ prefix registration number."
So...reading all of the above, no Reliant trike on the road should ever be using it's original Reliant registration documents, because non of them would ever pass the points system to enable one to retain them.
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Well, there's that date.
Not seen that write-up before.
I can see how it could be (mis?) interpreted that a Trike (or Bike) built/modified before that might be exempt.
After all, it doesn't actually say that the scheme is to be retrospectively applied to vehicles built/registered before that date . . .
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No it doesn't....but understand that none of the ringers were ever properly registered in the first place. Anything built after that date has to be MSVA'd, fair enough so far 'cos that's what happens with all new builds, apart from Reliant ringers who think there a law unto themselves.
The system that's now in place (and has been for a couple or three years now) is set up to be a catch all for dodgy vehicles.
From the MOT'er who should by law refuse to test what's in front of him/her if it's not what's on the V5...then report it to VOSA via the live computer MOT link.
To VOSA who should be plucking these ringers off the road by the hundred. All they have to do is set up a mobile test station outside any major rally and they'd have truck loads of the things.
To the insurance company's who shouldn't be insuring them exactly because there ringers...they even ask for photo's of the damn things.
Etc etc etc....But as we all know, none of it works, not one small part of it. If everyone did the job they are employed to do, ALL the ringers would be off the road in 18 months tops. So I/we/us continue to try and make trikers aware of what their potentially getting in to....
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So that was that....hope this clears up some of the legal niceties with reference to what's legal and what's not. For now at any rate.
"Reliant" trikes versus the law/MSVA
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"Reliant" trikes versus the law/MSVA
This nation wasn't given to our forefathers, it was wrought over a 1000 years of bloody war and the efforts of those who came before.
Let it not be us who bears the sin, of giving it away to the enemy within.
Let it not be us who bears the sin, of giving it away to the enemy within.
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"Reliant" trikes versus the law/MSVA
Good job Rik, thanks.
As for others doing their job(s) properly, I think the main problem (or one of them), is that a lot of them are just 'pen-pushers', it's the system itself that needs to be overhauled in my opinion.
You and I (and many others) have a keen interest in the regs affecting Trikes, but even we're not absolutely 100% sure most of the time, so it's not surprising that some office clerk in an insurance/DVLA department, who has zero interest in Trikes (if they even understand what they are in the first place), gets it wrong.
Not saying it's right, just that I understand how it goes on . . .
As for others doing their job(s) properly, I think the main problem (or one of them), is that a lot of them are just 'pen-pushers', it's the system itself that needs to be overhauled in my opinion.
You and I (and many others) have a keen interest in the regs affecting Trikes, but even we're not absolutely 100% sure most of the time, so it's not surprising that some office clerk in an insurance/DVLA department, who has zero interest in Trikes (if they even understand what they are in the first place), gets it wrong.
Not saying it's right, just that I understand how it goes on . . .
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Re: "Reliant" trikes versus the law/MSVA
Superbly done Rik
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Re: "Reliant" trikes versus the law/MSVA
A good topic this and if it hasn't been already , it should be stuck at the top
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Re: "Reliant" trikes versus the law/MSVA
It came off the Reliant ringers thread SM....ongoing battle.
This nation wasn't given to our forefathers, it was wrought over a 1000 years of bloody war and the efforts of those who came before.
Let it not be us who bears the sin, of giving it away to the enemy within.
Let it not be us who bears the sin, of giving it away to the enemy within.
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Re: "Reliant" trikes versus the law/MSVA
There are so many people out there in other places ie pb that just won't listen to peoples advise even after asking it in the first place the only way them guns listen is when there pride in joy is taken from them .or god forbid they are invold in a accident and then find out insurance is invalid as they have not got wat was involved in the accident insured
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Re: "Reliant" trikes versus the law/MSVA
Rik
I have nicked this and posted it on the Nabd forum where a member is asking about Msva etc on his reliant trike, hope this is ok.
Stix
I have nicked this and posted it on the Nabd forum where a member is asking about Msva etc on his reliant trike, hope this is ok.
Stix
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Re: "Reliant" trikes versus the law/MSVA
Course it is Stix.
Apart from my ramblings everything else is DVLA-DVSA (what was VOSA) rules and regs.
Apart from my ramblings everything else is DVLA-DVSA (what was VOSA) rules and regs.
This nation wasn't given to our forefathers, it was wrought over a 1000 years of bloody war and the efforts of those who came before.
Let it not be us who bears the sin, of giving it away to the enemy within.
Let it not be us who bears the sin, of giving it away to the enemy within.
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Re: "Reliant" trikes versus the law/MSVA
Well researched. and well written Rik. I hope this makes it clearer for our inmates, sorry members here. Whether it will help on FB, only time will tell. Too many pub lawyers and keyboard warriors there I'm afraid.
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Re: "Reliant" trikes versus the law/MSVA
I've found as I've gone though life...shouting and jumping up and down a lot doesn't really help folk out.
So these days I try to gain the facts as they are and post them in a non biased (ish ) way. Haven't put the link "out there" because FB land is teeming with people with Reliant ringers who just won't accept that their doing wrong in any possible way. Don't need the flack and the world of idiots out there giving me grief because they are soooooo mentally solid they can't or won't understand simple English, never mind the rules and regulations that are so clearly laid out there for them to read....if they can.
I know and accept that with some things I'm not exactly at the front of the queue when it comes to understanding stuff....but Lord give me strength in FB la la land, sometimes it reduces the lowest common denominator to new uncharted depths, such is life I suppose.
So these days I try to gain the facts as they are and post them in a non biased (ish ) way. Haven't put the link "out there" because FB land is teeming with people with Reliant ringers who just won't accept that their doing wrong in any possible way. Don't need the flack and the world of idiots out there giving me grief because they are soooooo mentally solid they can't or won't understand simple English, never mind the rules and regulations that are so clearly laid out there for them to read....if they can.
I know and accept that with some things I'm not exactly at the front of the queue when it comes to understanding stuff....but Lord give me strength in FB la la land, sometimes it reduces the lowest common denominator to new uncharted depths, such is life I suppose.
This nation wasn't given to our forefathers, it was wrought over a 1000 years of bloody war and the efforts of those who came before.
Let it not be us who bears the sin, of giving it away to the enemy within.
Let it not be us who bears the sin, of giving it away to the enemy within.